Bottom line is you have a choice...in every single thing you do or say....every time.......no if, ands or buts about it....you have a choice.

You've got that right. When I hear people use their childhood or even their current "circumstances" as a cop out for poor behavior, a poor attitude, etc ... I tend to point out these facts:

* You cannot control the behavior of others - you can control your reaction to that behavior.

* Regardless of how you were raised, the shit you've gone through, or the mess you consider your life to be at present - YOU own your choices, YOU own your feelings, YOU are the one driving your car. People can only affect you to the extent that you allow it. Don't allow it.

My opinion is that people need to grow up, take responsibility for their life, own their decisions/choices (both good and bad), and quit all of the damn self-pity "oh woe is me" bullshit.

Do you see the glass as half full or half empty. You decide.

I've been to hell, it's not a pretty place. But you know what? I was not a victim of rape, I was a survivor. I was not a victim of domestic violence, I was a survivor.

People enjoy playing the victim. I would much rather see myself as a survivor of the things life has handed to me, only a few of which I mentioned above.

That which does not kill us only serves to make us stronger. I truly believe that.

Life happens. Shit happens. Deal.

I'm a big fan of personal responsibility, and yes, I agree with you, Ladienyte, in that taking responsibility for one's own actions is absolutely necessary for maturity.

No argument there.

What I am having trouble with is the somewhat absolutist take on human behavior in the line, quoted by L., "...you have a choice...in every single thing you do or say...every time...no if's, and's, or but's about it...you have a choice."

I agree that people make choices...but I think that perhaps those choices are easier to make if a person is coming from a position of stability, love, support, etc.

The idea that experiences happen to a person, or a child, sort of sounds like there is a whole separate "person" there in the first place. I don't think I am going out on a limb here to state that a person is at least a little bit the sum of their experiences, and that experiences influence the kind of person we become. I know genetics has a lot to do with it too, but if we are denying the impact of experience on the formation of a person, I'd have to disagree. We aren't just people to whom experiences happen--we are those experiences, at least to a dregree.

I'm not promoting the now-debunked "tabla rasa" theory of human development, of course...but I am wary of discounting a person's experiences as a way of understanding their behavior.

However, I am with you both when you seem to imply that far too any people seem to "use their childhood or even their current 'curcumstances' as a cop out."

Oddly enough, I myself have had just a wonderful childhood and am in a wonderful place now, so it is with no amount of expertise I write all of this.

Again, sorry to come on here to disagree, even a little bit. I realize that this might be construed as "trolling" (a term I am still unsure of as to its meaning) so if you want me to shut up until I can agree with you, please, let me know.

--Sean

See Avo...its not about accepting responsibility for what others say or do but rather what "I" do. If someone says something mean or derogatory that's a choice they made ...an act they committed. I know there are those who try to accept or take on the burden of the world around them. It can't be done for long.....eventually you self destruct.

The problem is that a lot people just act....like animals really....no thought or consequence or effect. Stimulus hits and bang...they lash out with physical or verbal violence. No concern for those that have, in effect, attacked.

I think that as a species we have come to mistake 'Fault' or 'Blame' for 'Responsibility'. Something goes wrong (economically, politically, militarilly, socially) and the 'Blame Game' begins.....the 'spin' starts but if I had a million dollars for everytime someone accepted some responsibilty, in say our government, in the last year I'd have had about 500K before taxes.

The practice of Law has long ago stopped being about protecting the innocent and become a high priced game of shifting the blame.

In my mind, once you have chosen to act (or to not act in some cases)you own it. Someone loses a job because of it, dies because of it, becomes ill because of it....well, guess what....you are, in some small measure responsible.

Now, I will agree that 'Nurture' (as in Nature vs Nurture) does play a part in who we are....that experience colors us and influences how we chose but I cannot accept that as a reason to 'give someone a free ride' when they do something wrong. I know that's not very 'modern' or 'liberal' of me but the 'modern' society seems very happy to sling around the blame and accept as close to zero responsibility as we can get away with.

As for the Glass...it is neither partially empty nor completely full but both. There can always be more in it and then can always be less. The problem comes when the glass breaks.

Oh....one more thing.....I rarely find a heartfelt conversation to be innappropriate. Feel free to post your thoughs any time you like. I've looked at this response a dozen times or so and am still not completely happy with it but hey...